Robert GREEN and Mary (surname unknown) - Mary is from County Wicklow, Ireland

Robert GREEN and Mary (surname unknown)
Mary is from County Wicklow, Ireland
To Gloucester Township, Ontario, Canada
Green's Creek at Montreal Road and the Queensway

February 3, 2009:

Hi Al,

I have this interesting family I found in Gloucester, via the death cert for a Mary Green,
born in County Wicklow. I have no maiden name for her, but do have these details:

5-8-1883, Gloucester Deaths
Mary Green, 77 yrs.
Born: Wicklow, Ireland
Informant: Francis Green, Farmer, Gloucester
Registrar: C. Billings

I think this is Mary, shown below in 1881, living with her son(?), Robert:

Household:

Name Marital Status Gender Ethnic Origin Age Birthplace Occupation Religion
Robert GREEN M Male Irish 35 Ireland Farmer Church of England
Mariah GREEN M Female Irish 34 O Church of England
Even GREEN Male Irish 8 O Church of England
Christriane GREEN Female Irish 4 O Church of England
Richard GREEN Male Irish 1 O Church of England
Mary GREEN W Female Irish 70 Ireland Church of England

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Census Place Gloucester, Russell, Ontario
Family History Library Film 1375865
NA Film Number C-13229
District 104
Sub-district E
Division 3
Page Number 44
Household Number 186+

Here's Robert in 1901, b. Ire., emigrated in 1860. He also seems to have a new wife.
There is also a Francis Green, also b. Ire., emigrated 1855, on the same page (see below).

Name: Robert Green
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Age: 62
Birth Date: 22 Jan 1848
Birthplace: Ireland
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouse's Name: Edrina
Immigration Year: 1860
Racial or Tribal Origin: Irish
Nationality: Canadian
Religion: Church Of England
Occupation: Farmer
Province: Ontario
District: Russell
District Number: 112
Sub-District: Gloucester
Sub-District Number: E-6
Family Number: 99
Page: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Green 62
Edrina Green 53
Christena Green 24
Alexander Green 21
Polly Green 18
Annie Green 16
Ethel Green 13

Name: Francis Green
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Age: 67
Birth Date: 26 Jun 1833
Birthplace: Ireland
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouse's Name: Harriet
Immigration Year: 1855
Racial or Tribal Origin: Irish
Nationality: Canadian
Religion: Church Of England
Occupation: Farmer
Province: Ontario
District: Russell
District Number: 112
Sub-District: Gloucester
Sub-District Number: E-6
Family Number: 101
Page: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Francis Green 67
Harriet Green 65
Francis Green 28

This William Green below, 1881, has some of the same naming patterns in his family.
He appears to be gone by 1901:

Name Marital Status Gender Ethnic Origin Age Birthplace Occupation Religion
William GREEN M Male Irish 47 Ireland Farmer Church of England
Harriett GREEN M Female Irish 45 Ireland Church of England
Thomas GREEN Male Irish 22 O Church of England
Robert GREEN Male Irish 20 O Church of England
Mary GREEN Female Irish 18 O Church of England
Jane GREEN Female Irish 16 O Church of England
Harriott GREEN Female Irish 14 O Church of England
Margarett GREEN Female Irish 12 O Church of England
Frances GREEN Male Irish 10 O Church of England

In trying to determine just where in Gloucester the Greens lived, I noted on the 1901
census, just a couple of pages past the Green families, this Peter Tompkins:

- Peter Tompkins, b. Ire., 1821, emigrated 1852. He's the father of Denis, b. 1866 in
Ontario, on the same page. He's also the Peter Tompkins who emigrated from Newtown
(see the FW emigration record, below). Newtown is one mile from Ballynultagh.
See also, Emigration from the Fitzwilliam Estate, County Wicklow, 1847-1856

Here's Peter Tompkins's death registration:

Gloucester Deaths

26-3-1910
Born: March 24
84 yrs. old
Died at Ramsayville
Son of Denis Tompkins and Miss Warren, Ireland
Informant: Denis Tompkins (his son, I assume)

All this to say: Peter Tompkins settled in Ramsayville, as did the Greens (and just a
few years later). Maybe there was some family connection between them. I see that Robert
is a name both families used in naming sons.

Fitzwilliam Tenants - Family Group
ID: 990 Parish
Year Listed: 1852
Surname Tomkin
Reference No. 19
Group Members:
Catherine 50, Peter 28, Fanny 24, Mary 22, Jno. 20, Robert 17, Catherine 13.
Christopher Warren 10.
Voyage Townland
Ship Confiance As spelt in the Emigration
Departure Newtown
Arrival Quebec. June 16th Official
Other Information Holding
Ł15 on account of passage and support.
Chest/Graves in side column. House down.

Source: Companion CD to the book Surplus People by Jim Rees.

See also the Henry Tomkins family at Manotick Station.

And, in a section on Hawthorne in the book Gloucester Roots, there is note of a
Gordon Green (see posting dated February 4, 2009), a pioneer from c. 1830.

But there's also a later mention of a Robert Green, who operated a sawmill and gave his
name to Green's Creek. I wondered if he might have been a husband of Mary Green, mother of
Robert and Francis.

... Anne BurgessFebruary 4, 2009:

Hi Anne and Al,

I am interested in any Green's in Gloucester as I am still trying to find out more about
Mary Elizabeth Green b abt 1857 in Gloucester d. 1887 in Gloucester, 1st wife of Robert Moxley.
Their marriage registration says her parents were Gordon and Eleanor Green, of whom I can
find nothing.

Re: Greens Creek, this name existed from about 1830, it is mentioned in the descriptions
of the township in a handbook for immigrants published by the Canada Company in (I think)
1832 , don't have the exact title handy but I know I accessed it from Bytown or Bust.

Re: Locations of Gloucester families in 1901 census I can tell you from looking at most
of the census entries at one time or another that you cannot deduce location from the
main schedule in this part of Gloucester, the census taker seemed to wander all over the
place; there is a second schedule also online which shows the lot and conc of each household
in the order in which they were recorded on the main schedule. It shows

Robert Green Lot 13 Conc 5 Rideau Front
Thomas Green Lot 12 Conc 5 Rideau Front
Francis Green Lot 10 Conc 5 Rideau Front

http://data6.archives.ca/lizardtech/iserv/getimage?cat=z&item=z003/z000100689.sid&rgn=-0.2804878049,0.0449943757,0.5000000000,0.9448818898&wid=640&hei=600&oif=jpg

and
Dennis Tompkins East 1/2 of Lot 15 Conc 6 Rideau Front

http://data6.archives.ca/lizardtech/iserv/getimage?cat=z&item=z003/z000100702.sid&rgn=-0.0790419162,0.2716981132,0.3041916168,0.7245283019&wid=640&hei=600&oif=jpg

Vernon's 1901 Farmers and Business Directory of Carleton County lists 3 Green families
in Gloucester:

Francis Green Lot 10 Conc 5 Rideau Front, Leitrim P.O.
Robert Green Lot 10 Conc 6 Rideau Front, Hawthorne P.O.
Thomas Green Lot 12 Conc 5 Rideau Front, Leitrim P.O.

The only Tompkins/Thompkins listed is

Dennis Tompkins Lot 15 Conc 6 Rideau Front Billings Bridge P.O.

Regards,

... Allen Craig
February 7, 2009:

Hi Al and Anne,

Here is the reference for the 1832 usage of Greens Creek as found on Early Canadiana
Online:

The Canadas, as they at present commend themselves to the enterprize of emigrants,
colonists, and capitalists comprehending a variety of topographical reports concerning the
quality of the land, etc. in different districts and the fullest general information /

London : E. Wilson, 1832, Page 140,

Regards

Allen Craig
__________________________________________

Hi Al and Al,

I found this marriage below of an Eliza Green, b. Wicklow, a widow. Witnesses were Francis
Greene and Mary Ann Greene of Gloucester, and her parents were named as Thomas and Mary
Green.

It would seem to mean that the whole Green family I sent you the other day (with sons Robert,
Francis, and maybe William) were all b. Wicklow. Or maybe I'm assuming too much.

From the Ontario Marriage registrations.

Eliza Green, 38, of Ottawa
b. County of Wicklow, Ireland,
Widow
d/o Thomas and Mary Greene

Edward Woods, 46, of Richmond
b. Ballycanew, Co. Wexford
Bachelor, shoemaker
s/o Thomas and Eliza Woods

Wit: Francis Greene and Mary Ann Greene, Gloucester

8-9-1881
Ottawa

Church of England

and the attached seems to be the death cert. (Ottawa) for Elizabeth Green Woods, d/o Thomas
Green. But sadly, it doesn't give us her mother's maiden name.

Anne
_________________________________
Hi Anne and Al,

I knew I had encountered her before; but couldn't make the connection until you gave me
her husbands' names.

Here she is in 1901 as housekeeper for Sir Sandford Fleming note that she is still married
at this time; so where is Edward ??

http://automatedgenealogy.com/census/View.jsp?id=98483&highlight=42&desc=1901+Census+of+Canada+page+containing+Elizabeth+Wood

In 1911 she is living with her daughter Elizabeth Jane (Woods) McDiarmid who married
Collis A. McDiarmid in 1899; CA McDiarmid was the son of Duncan McDiarmid and Mary Moxley. Note
that Eliz (Green) Woods is still reported as married not widowed --- Edward shows up a
little farther down.

http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/View.jsp?id=4387&highlight=8&desc=1911+Census+of+Canada+page+containing+Elizabeth+Woods

Edward Woods show up on the 1911 Census as an inmate at the "Old Mens Home" at 954 Bank St.

http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/View.jsp?id=3829&highlight=49&desc=1911+Census+of+Canada+page+containing+Edward+Woods

The 1912 Ottawa Directory describes 954 Bank as the Protestant Home for the Aged. Today it
is still a seniors residence directly across Bank St. from Landsdowne Park.

And information about his death from Familysearch pilot site:

Name: Edward Woods
Death date: 13 Oct 1913
Age at death: 88 years
Death place: Ottawa, Carleton, Ontario
Birth date: 1825
Estimated birth year: 1825
Birth place: England
Gender: Male
Marital status: Married
GSU film number: 1854932
Digital GS number: 4170169
Image number: 867
Reference number: yr 1913 cn 11806
Collection: Ontario Deaths 1869-1947

The only Edward and Elizabeth Woods in Carleton listed on OCFA or the OGS cemetery indices
are buried at Beechwood.

So far this is all pretty straightforward - here comes the speculative part.

The eldest daughter of C A and Elizabeth McDiarmid died in 1926; here is the information as
shown on Familysearch pilot.

Name: Elizabeth Templeton Mcdiarmid
Death date: 29 May 1926
Age at death: 26 years
Death place: Ottawa, Carleton, Ontario
Birth date: 1900
Gender: Female
Father name: C. Arthur Mcdiarmid
Mother name: Jean Mackenzie
GSU film number: 2079874
Digital GS number: 4171700
Image number: 457
Reference number: 10227
Collection: Ontario Deaths 1869-1947

Note her mothers maiden name, this is one of a few references I have that list her as
McKenzie/Mackenzie rather than Woods, and its always bothered me because of the 1911 census
and other records that list his wife as Eliazbeth or Lizzie Woods; so now knowing that her
mother was twice married I reasoned that perhaps her mothers married name from her first
marriage was McKenzie / MacKenzie. So I checked the 1881 census and there they were in
Gloucester, see line 20 on page 37 here

http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e327/e008169389.jpg

What makes this really interesting is the family immediately below. Edwards brother???
Next question who was the unknown first husband and was the older girl also named Elizabeth
his daughter by a previous marriage or what? The ethnicity difference suggests that
possibility.

A couple of odd and ends to cover-- first the name Elizabeth 'Templeton' McDiarmid is good
evidence that she was in fact the daughter of C A McDiarmid son of Mary Moxley daughter of
Richard Moxley and Elizabeth Templeton; this naming pattern is repeated over and over again
in this family. Second, C A McDiarmid and Elizabeth Woods stood as witnesses at the Dec 1898
wedding of CA's cousin Luella Moxley to William David Hopkins of Smiths Falls. Luella was
the daughter of John Templeton Moxley and Martha Gordon daughter of Samuel Gordon and Mary
Wilson of Goulbourn and lastly C A's brother James married an Annie Green of whom I have no
information but perhaps she is a daughter of one of the Gloucester Green's?

and, this looks like a fit:

Name: Francis William Green
Death date: 22 Dec 1913
Estimated death year:
Age at death: 79 years 5 months 28 days
Death place: Gloucester, Carleton, Ontario
Birth date: 1834
Birth place:
Gender: Male
Marital status: Widowed
Father name: Thomas Green
Mother name: Mary Hannah
GSU film number: 1854932
Digital GS number: 4170169
Image number: 163
Reference number: yr 1913 cn 9976
Collection: Ontario Deaths 1869-1947

Regards,

Allen Craig
___________________________

So Mary's name was Hannah. I'll have to see if I can find the names Green and Hannah in a
townland on the Wicklow Fiztwilliam Estate.

Thank you so much.

Anne

E-mail Anne Burgess, Allen Craig and Al Lewis

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